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  1. #31
    Join Date
    06-19-2010
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    1,093

    Re: Starting a cabinet and a very messy work bench!

    I also like flush doors and drawers; both of which I have yet to master to my liking.

    What I have come to learn is that if a side or front is proud (offset) of the other then it must be reconciled before cutting the dado for the bottom to fit. If you don't, the corner of the bottom will not fit into the intersecting dados because one dado will be shifted the amount of the offset.

    The key is to plane, starting with the thickest part of the offset, with successive longer strokes until your strokes are several inches long otherwise when you mill the dado the side following the rip fence will not be able to follow the acute angle. Make sense?
    Last edited by Johnboy; 11-16-2017 at 10:25 pm.
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  2. #32

    Re: Starting a cabinet and a very messy work bench!

    I have no idea what either of you are talking about. I used finger joints all the way around. I am using bottom sliders.
    Charter Member of The Cody Colston WoodWorkers Benevolence Society
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  3. #33
    Join Date
    06-22-2010
    Location
    Jackson, MS
    Posts
    2,981

    Re: Starting a cabinet and a very messy work bench!

    Wiz' by "flush mount" I mean that when the drawer is closed completely into the case, the front surface of the exposed front will be in the same plane as the face frame surrounding it.

    The 1/16" margin I mentioned is the space between the edges of the finished front of the drawer and the surrounding face frame. MY ideal would be a perfect 1/16 all around. But to achieve this everything has to be perfectly square. That doesn't happen nearly as often as I'd like.

    From the pictures you submitted, Id' say your drawers are flush mounted. You use a box joint where I use dovetails. I actually like the way yours look. Question: Do the joint fingers actually stick out past the front surface of the drawer slightly?
    art

    He who works with his hands is a laborer;
    he who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman;
    he who works with his hands and his head and his heart is an artist.

    St. Francis of Assissi
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  4. #34
    Join Date
    08-01-2010
    Location
    Santa Barbara, CA
    Posts
    325

    Re: Starting a cabinet and a very messy work bench!

    Quote Originally Posted by art3427 View Post
    I too like flush mount doors and drawers. I also have trouble with the clearances. I typically use side mount guides on a box with applied front. Concerning the back joint, I use the same dovetails for all corners of the box . My PC 4212 makes it easer to do this than figuring and cutting a different joint for each end of a box. I cut the sides in pairs as well as the ends to insure opposite sides are always equal. This goes a long way in making a truly square box.

    As for the bottom groove, I've omitted it since I use 5mil plywood for the bottoms. I just allow 3/16 for the bottom when figuring for width of sides and ends. The bottom is glued and nailed to the bottom edges of the box once the sides are assembled and then I use a 1/8" rounding bit to conceal the edge of the plywood. I've done this on a couple of project now and really like the finished product.

    My Achilles heel is fitting the applied front to the box with a consistent margin between the drawer front edge and face frame. I use a 1/16 gauge for this. The difficulty is getting the drawer openings PERFECTLY square so I can just cut a square front and apply it. I seem to always need to cut a tapered edge some where on every box and it gets time consuming. Yesterday I fit 12 drawers and fronts and it took 4 hours!

    I will keep working at this until I master building and fitting drawers. For me, a well fitted and smooth operating drawer is the proof of one who has mastered the heart of quality woodcraft - precise and well fitted joinery. I've got a more to learn.
    Why would you use an applied bottom, especially with side mount slides? Seems like that would be the most failure prone option.
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  5. #35
    Join Date
    06-22-2010
    Location
    Jackson, MS
    Posts
    2,981

    Re: Starting a cabinet and a very messy work bench!

    Quote Originally Posted by ThisIsMatt View Post
    Why would you use an applied bottom, especially with side mount slides? Seems like that would be the most failure prone option.
    I make all drawer boxes with through dovetails on every corner. I've finally got my PC 4212 tuned to cut really snug fitting tails & pins. They will hold themselves together very tight even w/out glue - but I always glue them. I use the applied bottom to hold the sides/ends square. It is the same principle as building a 4 sided case and applying a glued & nailed back to hold it square. Eliminating the bottom groove cuts out 1 machining operation and also adds about a 1/2" to the inside drawer depth.

    The 5 mil bottom is so thin that with a 1/8" rounding bit it's edge virtually disappears. IMO the ploughed in bottom was started when drawer bottoms were made from solid wood and thus needed room to expand and contract. Because of this, the bottom added very little if anything to the structural integrity of the drawer box.

    As for drawer hardware, I mostly use metal guides that screw to the bottom edge of the box and wrap up and around the side of the drawer. Thus the edge of the plywood is completely hid by the hardware.
    art

    He who works with his hands is a laborer;
    he who works with his hands and his head is a craftsman;
    he who works with his hands and his head and his heart is an artist.

    St. Francis of Assissi
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  6. #36

    Re: Starting a cabinet and a very messy work bench!

    Quote Originally Posted by art3427 View Post
    Wiz' by "flush mount" I mean that when the drawer is closed completely into the case, the front surface of the exposed front will be in the same plane as the face frame surrounding it.

    The 1/16" margin I mentioned is the space between the edges of the finished front of the drawer and the surrounding face frame. MY ideal would be a perfect 1/16 all around. But to achieve this everything has to be perfectly square. That doesn't happen nearly as often as I'd like.

    From the pictures you submitted, Id' say your drawers are flush mounted. You use a box joint where I use dovetails. I actually like the way yours look. Question: Do the joint fingers actually stick out past the front surface of the drawer slightly?
    Yes!
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  7. #37

    Re: Starting a cabinet and a very messy work bench!

    It is a lot easier if you use underneath sliders!
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